I write well. I listen less well. I speak less well than even that.
As I suspected would happen, some of my skills have atrophied since the fulltime course ended last fall. My speaking has sustained some damage, as I no longer speak Finnish every day. I listen and write often, so those skills continue to improve slowly.
The problem is finding people with whom to speak. My developing career is based upon my ability to speak English. Chatting with Rami is certainly very helpful, if only because I'm far less inhibited with him than with others, but I find myself recycling the same familiar words and phrases with him. Occasionally we'll have a proper conversation over coffee and korvapuusteja, but who's got the time for that every single day?
People frequently advise me to do things. You know, join clubs or sports teams, take classes, expose myself to groups of people. I'm skeptical about this, though. Let's face it: I'm shy, they're shy, we're all shy. No one will make the first move. Even if I were to "put myself out there" and join something, I doubt that I'd gain many contacts.
Perhaps this is one of my fundamental flaws as an expat. It's very hard for me to envision having the constitution to seek out the human contact that I require.
Anyway, that brings me to a request. Or an offer? Or a suggestion. If you're in the Lappeenranta area, I invite you to contact me about meeting for coffee/beer/wine/whatever beverage. The only requirement is that you have the patience to deal with my less-than-fluent Finnish skills. Oh, and that you aren't a murderous rapist, but that probably goes without saying.
Finns love associations, there's an association for everything. Try joining one of them?
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, Finns are shy. I'm taking violin classes and nobody spoke to anybody during the first months. It's not just you, it's all of us Finns... :P
That's exactly it, kotte*. Imagine how hard it is to teach an English conversation course! :P
DeleteAww, I was in Lappeenranta only once, and didn't know you then! I wish I could call over for a chat!!
ReplyDeleteIf you ever happen to visit again for some reason, get in touch! It'd be lovely to meet you. :)
DeleteI had a similar problem. A new language atrophy is really fast if you're not using them in all the respected areas. Before I got this job, every time a work practice ended and I had nothing much to do, I started panicking. Same as yourself, I'm not active in searching for friends. In fact, I can't really say that I have Finnish friends yet after having lived here for a little over 6 years. I have a little bit of "help" in practicing Finnish 'coz my MIL doesn't speak English and we visit her once a week (unless something comes up that hinders us from going there).
ReplyDeleteNowadays I write less Finnish, though I do speak it regularly at work, but now the problem is that I speak more Finnish and listen to more Finnish, but I write less well than before because when you speak, you can pronounce words whichever way you want (longish, shortish, slangish, etc.). And I find that nowadays I've forgotten the little details of the grammar. I remember during the class, I could explain grammatical structures easily to my friends, but nowadays I can't really do that anymore 'coz some of the grammatical terms are kinda hazy. They're still at the very back of my mind and I can brush them up again if I want to, but I suppose by speaking more Finnish already, I tend to get "lazier" in that area.
One thing that I found troublesome was that one time during my unemployment period, I forced myself to speak purely in Finnish with R2 and guess what happened? My tongue reverted to Finnish/Indonesian when pronouncing English words. I spent two semesters learning English pronunciation at the uni in the lab and that incident freaked me out (because Finnish pronunciation is similar to Indonesian, so learning English pronunciation is tougher for me). So these days I revert to speaking in English with R2 to keep my "tongue intact" in pronouncing English words (even then I still find that my tongue isn't the same as before when saying English words). Sometimes I wonder how on earth some people can be fluent in many languages. How do they manage to "separate" the languages and maintain the ability to pronounce them correctly? Hmmm...OK, this is long enough. Sorry, but your posts often awaken so many thoughts in my brain LOL!!!
Oh yeah, forgot to say the important thing: hope you find welcoming people you can talk Finnish with. :-)
DeleteI sent e-mail to you today. I live in Lappeenranta and it would be nice to meet you and talk Finnish together. I'm loooking forward to your reply.
DeleteWow, odd that you lost your ability to pronounce English the way you'd been taught at uni...do you think it's because Finnish pronunciation is more similar to Indonesian pronunciation? So it was like reverting back to what you were used to? It's great that you both keep in practice by using English. I don't think I'll ever face the problem of forgetting English (I'll always read English, write it and even speak it when I'm teaching) but I do feel the need to...express myself fluently sometimes. Just say whatever's on my mind effortlessly. If I didn't have those moments, I'd go crazy. That's why it's hard to go exclusively Finnish with Rami. At the moment, we speak a mixture at home, and exclusively Finnish when out and about together.
DeleteIt's nice that you understand the situation, though. I bet working as a myyjä can be very demanding linguistically sometimes, which is great for your Finnish skills.
I hope I don't forget the grammatical structures! I love them! They're all I've got! :)
Oh yeah, my tongue definitely reverted back to my Indo tongue and it's definitely because Finnish pronunciation is closer to Indonesian pronunciation. My UK friend has told me a few times that she has noticed that I've been losing my English ability after a while (I think after living in Finland for 2+ years and up). And she herself has told me (after living in Finland for 7+ or more) that some days she "loses" some English words and she'd remember the Finnish words instead.
DeleteOh no, not exactly forgetting the grammatical structures completely, but more like you've stopped analysing too much and you begin to whip out more phrases/sentences from the things you've heard or seen rather than trying to compose a new sentence without knowing much of anything (or trying to compose a new sentence by finding the corresponding equivalents in Finnish). These days sometimes I say or remember some phrases and then I suddenly wonder, "Where have I seen/read it?" Because I definitely am NOT the one composing the phrase on my own. I must've picked it up from somewhere.
I understand completely about the wish to express yourself fluently. That's probably also one other reason why I speak English with R2 at home - 'coz I'm not yet at the phase where I can be totally fluent with all the nuances to speak out everything I want to speak out in Finnish.
Actually being a myyjä in a small village isn't that demanding 'coz people are more relaxed, so when I don't understand something, they can explain it to me in a relaxed manner (using body language, gestures), so it's not that bad. I find that talking on the phone is MUCH more scary than talking face to face 'coz you can't use body language he he...
Oh yeah, my UK's friend's English deterioration isn't as bad as mine (not by a long shot!!!), but still after 7+ years she's experienced some trouble (sometimes trouble recollecting the English words and instead she'd remember the Finnish words). For me, sometimes these days I wonder if I've mixed up the Finnish grammar with English grammar, esp. in terms of "in, on, at, from, for.) Oh, and of course the worst part is mixing up "she", "he" and their counterparts (him, his, hers, her), because in Indonesian language there's also only "dia" = "hän".
DeleteSo as you can tell, learning Finnish has corrupted my English so much 'coz there are more resemblances to Indonesian language (it's easy to revert back to my own native tongue so to speak).
And when I wrote about that these days I remember more phrases I've picked up...I've heard more spoken phrases through work that I never found in writings/in the classroom and I guess it's a local thing (local dialect, slang, etc.) so that it's kinda hard to lean back on the formal type of texts 'coz what is used daily by people is very different. Of course people will understand if I use the formal type of speech, but it feels "too formal" in a way to use at work, so I've tried to copy and remember the phrases they use here. Maybe it's my attempt to "blend in"???
This is so great, Elena! So great! :) I kinda recognize that I may have perpetrated in this sort of advising you're talking about? :D But I'm totally standing my ground: one really should go out there - see people, do things! :)
ReplyDeleteYes, I know not everyone is outgoing like that, but maybe just take a risk? ;) And I know it probably feels difficult at first.. but I also know from experience that it really pays back in the end :)
If I would be in the "Lpr" region I would answer your invitation! Also, since I'm just 235km north of there, I'm inviting you and your spouse here the next summer!! I don't remember if I've told about this festival here in Joensuun in July, but that might be something you'd like..!
Oh, it wasn't your comment that got me thinking about it. Looots and lots of people have said the same thing. And you're so very right in one sense: you can't meet people if you don't try. Since I have limited contact with people, the only real way to get friend or Finnish practice is to take chances. But, since everyone involved in this equation is shy, I thought I'd take the coward's way and advertise myself on the internet! You'll be happy to know that I'm thinking of signing up for yoga class or something when one becomes available. :)
DeleteThanks for the invitation! How kind of you. :) Do you mean Ilosaarirock? I would like that! The trouble will be convincing my husband to join me.
Oh okay, well then I have to agree with all those ppl saying that :) Yoga class sounds interesting! Never been to one and probably never will be, but probably it's very nice to those who like it! :P
ReplyDeleteAnd yes of course I'll invite you guys here! Elena, you gotta know thing or two about us Carelians: We are the most hospitable people amongst the Finnish "tribes"..! :) If there are quests, we will do all we can that they "feel they're home"! :) And yes, I mean Ilosaarirock :P
Hmm ok, but why is convincing Rami to come to Ilosaarirock so difficult? There's so many different kind of music styles represented that he would definetely like some of the bands!? :)